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MPeg Streamclip à Animation codec


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#1 LOTR

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Posté 28 décembre 2011 - 00:16

Je ne parle pas Francais mais ai eu besoin d'une réponse à cette question ainsi ai utilisé réellement un traducteur en ligne. Veuillez excuser la traduction pauvre. blush.gif

J'emploie fréquemment le format d'Animation d'Apple parce que c'est le seul véritable format visuel sans perte que le Mac offre. Cependant, si je sauve une vidéo dans le format d'animation avec MPEG Streamclip, il est toujours plus petit que le dossier d'équivalent de QuickTime. La qualité est également moins.

J'ai fait une expérience : Après 3 générations d'économiser dans le format d'animation utilisant MPEG Streamclip, la perte de qualité était évidente. Par la génération 4rth de sauver le dossier, le fond m'a rappelé une image de JPEG de qualité inférieure. J'ai fait la même expérience utilisant QuickTime. Par la 10ème génération, il n'y avait aucune perte de qualité.

Ma question est :
Fait l'utilisation QuickTime' de MPEG Streamclip ; codec d'animation de s ou un équivalent de source ouverte qui probablement a été vraiment seulement conçu pour le playback de format d'animation ?

Ou y a-t-il un problème avec MPEG Streamclip pouvant accéder et obtenir à la qualité 100% quand économie dans le format d'animation en dépit de la qualité étant placée à 100% ?

Peut-être c'est un bug / bogue ?

(Does MPeg Streamclip use QuickTime's Animation codec or an open source equivalent that was probably really only designed for animation format playback?

Or is there a problem with MPeg Streamclip being able to access and obtain 100% quality when saving in Animation format despite the quality being set to 100%?

Perhaps this is a bug?)

Modifié par LOTR, 28 décembre 2011 - 00:18.


#2 uzboxberg

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Posté 28 décembre 2011 - 22:42

hi,
you should probably contact the developer directly: wink.gif
http://www.squared5....eo/contact.html
but think of indicating at least your version, and version of OSX.

I've verified this taking a file that I converted, resulting in a file 10x bigger after conversion in QT than in MPSC (quality set to 100, or best in QT) and actually the name "animation" is not even exactly the same between MPSC and QT, "Animation" in QT, but "Animations Apple" in MPSC. No idea whether this is in fact the same thing.

Note however, although Animation is a good codec, there are other codecs you may use if you don't care about HD space, like ProRes 4444, uncompressed 4:2:2 10bit, etc. Depends also what exactly you want to do, as these may not be the best options for a final export.

#3 LOTR

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Posté 29 décembre 2011 - 03:40

I know little about ProRes 4444, uncompressed 4:2:2 10bit, etc. but my research suggested these are really pseudo lossless and not true lossless formats. Correct me if I am wrong. smile.gif

In my case, I use the Animation format as an intermediate format before final export. Thus allowing editing, adding or removing data without loss of quality between each generation step.

Thank you very much for your previous reply and for taking the time for testing for verification.
I will try to report this to the MPSC author. wink.gif

Oh, and thank you for answering in english. Much appreciated. Merci beaucoup !!!

Modifié par LOTR, 29 décembre 2011 - 03:44.


#4 herve

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Posté 29 décembre 2011 - 19:41

Citation (LOTR @ jeudi 29 décembre 2011 à 03 h 40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know little about ProRes 4444, uncompressed 4:2:2 10bit, etc. but my research suggested these are really pseudo lossless and not true lossless formats. Correct me if I am wrong. smile.gif
you're right (just for info: animation is a loseless codec too, a non-loseless codec is "yuv" for example: it takes something like 3 GB per minute with an HD file sad.gif)

Citation
In my case, I use the Animation format as an intermediate format before final export. Thus allowing editing, adding or removing data without loss of quality between each generation step.
you own FCP and its codecs? so, use proresHD (the best ratio quality / disk space used, a far better ratio than animation codec, and handle by most of PC's softwares too)

bye

Modifié par herve, 29 décembre 2011 - 19:42.

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#5 LOTR

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Posté 07 janvier 2013 - 14:17

Sorry to bring an old topic and thread back to life. But again, I am looking for advice and would like to pass on my observations.

Ever since this thread I have used mostly ProRes 422 HQ but I have not been happy with the results.
I have a suspicion MPSC is unable to save any of the FCP QT codecs at 100% quality. Last year I wrote about this suspicion to the MPSC author but no response. I am not surprised about the no response but would be nice to know if the MPSC developer has at least had a look at this issue.

13 months is a long time to review my own experience with using both ProRes and Animation formats for many projects. I am continually feeling disappointed at the results after converting the finished edited work to H264.

As a general observation: For standard video ProRes saves at less than 500 MB/minute. It's my guess it throws away a lot of information during that initial save. Video cannot be compressed anywhere near music, but lossless compressed audio formats such as FLAC and Apple Lossless on average save at around 60% of size. QT's Animation saves standard video at around 1.5 GB/minute. ProRes saving at 30% or less? It's my guess ProRes throws away 50% or more of data rather than compressing it.

Perhaps I am getting slightly off topic in the above paragraph.

I am looking for a method to get DVD-video into a lossless video format. No loss of quality during that initial save; all information that exists is passed to the saved file. MPSC does not seem to be able to do this at 100% quality for the initial conversion.

Why do I not edit the dvd in MPSC and then convert the finished work to H264? Because I often edit the sound separately so there's no obvious edits to the sound. This requires taking the audio out to edit separately and then returning. This cannot be done with MPSC, at least not at same time as you are reading from a DVD-video's contents.
Another reason is I often take several sessions of editing a project, so a go-between format is required.
Another reason is I rather like the X264 conversion abilities of HB for the finished edited work.

By the way I actually wrote to the MPSC developer about 3 years ago asking if he would upgrade the H264 codec to the newer X264 with its newer high profile options and other general improvements. I did not get a response. smile.gif

Modifié par LOTR, 07 janvier 2013 - 14:19.


#6 uzboxberg

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Posté 07 janvier 2013 - 15:08

Just to make sure your basic question is still the same, and you did know that: you can export in QT's animation codec via MPSC, by chosing "export in other formats..." (not the "faulty" codec used by MPSC).

For the rest, it is certainly difficult to find a really good program for H.264 conversion (at a reasonable price, that is). But you may also know that H.264 video you produce yourself (via QT or otherwise) often looks quite bad in QT, but much better in VLC for ex.


PS.: otherwise, you may also write to this guy, for example, if he knows "better" methods:
http://www.dvdxdv.co...ort/support.htm

Modifié par uzboxberg, 07 janvier 2013 - 15:11.


#7 LOTR

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Posté 07 janvier 2013 - 15:26

oh, I did not know. blush.gif Thanks for the pointer. I suspect this is the fix to the problem, at least from my exporting point of view. Thank you very much for the advice. smile.gif

Late edit:
X264 IS the best and most advanced H264 codec around and has been for several years yet it is totally free. I use Handbrake for making best use of the most upgraded versions of X264. Pity MPSC has not upgraded its version of the codec in such a long time. Handbrake had been such a very buggy program but in recent times seems to have solved many problems I had with the program (13 months ago a night-release alpha version fixed two major issues I had been having.) I always use dual pass VBR and usually high profile H264 with exceptions. Anything HB can do, VLC can play. QT with Perian support can play all for playback but not necessarily at same quality VLC can. I guess Perian does not update as often; I only see Perian updates once every year or two.

(A general comment about Handbrake: it is very much a learning process. The HB forum recommends CBR and VFR. That's an easy approach but not necessarily the best. My personal tests over the years suggests my approach is preferential for what I am wanting. If you are after low profile H264 for easy playback on iPod, etc. then their approach is fine. Their recommendations are mostly for new users who have little or no experience with video.)

Wikipedia description of X264: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X264

H264 comparison via Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....ture_comparison

Not important, but I know I previously used the 'Other' option for MPSC for various purposes in my early days of using the program. I suspect after a break from using MPSC, I forgot about the alternatives which may have been my preference at the time.

Modifié par LOTR, 07 janvier 2013 - 21:07.


#8 herve

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Posté 09 janvier 2013 - 15:09

Citation (LOTR @ lundi 7 janvier 2013 à 15 h 26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pity MPSC has not upgraded its version of the codec in such a long time.
MPSC uses the system implementation of h264 (=QuickTime one)
Each time you update system/QuickTime, you update the MPSC h264 decoding features.
So complain to Apple, not to MPSC's author wink.gif

Citation
I guess Perian does not update as often; I only see Perian updates once every year or two.
Perian is discontinued. Its authors have something better to do with their free time that handle a free software more, …bad for users sad.gif

PS:
Citation
The HB forum recommends CBR and VFR.
I don't recommend VariableFrameRate (except if you want to loose some compatibility with QuickTime and out-of-synch with some others -and buggy- players)

bye
Happy new year

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#9 uzboxberg

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Posté 10 janvier 2013 - 14:30

Citation (LOTR @ lundi 7 janvier 2013 à 15 h 26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
oh, I did not know. blush.gif Thanks for the pointer. I suspect this is the fix to the problem, at least from my exporting point of view. Thank you very much for the advice. smile.gif

Not important, but I know I previously used the 'Other' option for MPSC for various purposes in my early days of using the program. I suspect after a break from using MPSC, I forgot about the alternatives which may have been my preference at the time.

You definitely should make use of the option to save your favorite export settings, so it will be easy to apply them again (the button down/left on the export window, its french name is "préreglages" but I don't know its english name). (You can save as many as you want).



PS.: bonjour Hervé, et très bonne année à toi ! smile.gif


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